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Code 0 Halyard Rigging

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: 370 / 375
Forum Description: 370 / 375 Hints, Tips and News
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13218
Printed Date: 29 January 2023 at 12:12
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Code 0 Halyard Rigging
Posted By: Gypsy
Subject: Code 0 Halyard Rigging
Date Posted: 18 February 2022 at 09:13
I own a Hanse 370 2008 model. I sail mostly single handed with the 43sqm main and the 23sqm self-tacking jib, generally in Sydney Harbour waters which are protected but can be gusty and busy. For light winds I have a code 0 which is on a furler and pushed out from the bow by the prodder/bowsprit of about 40cms.

I find it difficult to furl the code 0 due to the head of the sail chaffing on the jib top swivel and therefore the furl does not start smoothly at the top so it ends up un-even and quite taught. I have experimented with different heights of the sail by adjusting the tack strop length but I have not found a ‘sweet spot’ to allow smooth furling. Doing it on my own means I don’t have equal control over the furler and releasing the sheet so that, no doubt exacerbates the problem. See the photo of the head of the code 0 and the head of the jib.

The halyard of the code 0 comes from the masthead through a guide to a guide eye just above the forestay fitting so as the load is near to the location of the shrouds. The mast is tapered from the shrouds to the cap over approx 1m. See photo of the top of the mast.

It seems my furling friction could be reduced by having the halyard exit the top guide rather than taken down to the second eye, this would allow separation of the code 0 from the jib.

Can any 370 owners tell me if it is normal to use the top exit guide for a downwind sail such as the code 0 or an assymetric spinaker? I notice the top guide is shaped so as to allow the use of a halyard, not just a guide to the lower eye.


All ideas welcome.




Replies:
Posted By: 415 Singapore
Date Posted: 18 February 2022 at 09:38
Hi, we have a tapering Selden mast on our 415 and the spinnaker / code 0 halyard goes through a guide eye, but it well above the forestay. It seems strange that your mast has two guides where one would be sufficient. Top one looks quite high, bottom one is too close to the forestay.
Maybe check with the mast manufacturer? But I would guess ours is about 30cm above the forestay.
Good luck
Paul



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Paul - Night Train - 415 #136


Posted By: iemand
Date Posted: 18 February 2022 at 11:19
in the rigging drawings from Selden there is a fixed meassure of the maximum hight of the code 0 halyard. 

The forestay hight is 14680mm and the Code 0 max height is 15305mm (625mm above forestay height)

I put a fairlead on that hight and went up through a double halyared sheave where I directly fly my Spinnaker.

you may not go higher with the Code 0 !

I am now considering a 2:1 for my Code 0 halyard since the loads are very high.


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Hanse 312 MJ 2004 - Hanse 370e MJ 2007


Posted By: Gypsy
Date Posted: 19 February 2022 at 00:25
Thks for your reply (and Singapore). My mast is not a Seldon, it is Sparcraft (I think) so it will be similar but not identical. Even so, your info that the Seldon expects the Code 0 to be 625mm above the forestay would be very close to the top fairlead on my mast. That is a good clue for me.
On a more general 'sails & rigging' forum I have had many answers, some from Hanse owners, others with similar fractional rigs. The consensus seems to be it will be safe to use the top fairlead, and given its shape it looks like it is expecting a spi or C0 halyard to exit, but I should be sure to have the backstay on tension and watch the mast for sideways movement if the wind is closer to a broad reach. I'll try this.

Other interesting comments suggest that the second fairlead is really a ring for a block to carry the line, so it would give some separation if used....why didn't my sailmaker notice that...or me? Another good suggestion is to add a lowfriction ring with a 10-20cm strop to the 2nd ring/fairlead to allow separation.

It is so good to get the information and suggestions through users. Thankyou.


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 19 February 2022 at 07:43
Hi Gypsy

Perhaps I later today can measure the distance from the eye at the forestay and up to the upper eye.
I would already say that it is more than 700mm...

I also got a Code0 last year, but I have not had the opportunity to fly it. I only have one spinaker haleyard, so I am aiming for at setup that will allow the use of the Genaker or Code0.
But because I have not tried the Code0 yet, I don't know if this current setup I am using for the Gennaker (Asymmetric Spinaker) will work.
I use a blok to give more clearance and also to lower the wear and tear of the line.  I almost lost the old haleyard!
https://myhanse.com/spinnaker-halyard-lead-caution_topic10942.html" rel="nofollow - https://myhanse.com/spinnaker-halyard-lead-caution_topic10942.html

This is my current setup:


Perhaps I should install the Sparcraft Gennaker Block some 20 cm above the forestay?
source  https://www.sparcraft.com/uk/products/hardware/fichiers/mast_accessories.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.sparcraft.com/uk/products/hardware/fichiers/mast_accessories.pdf

This would also give more height/room for the Code0 because the furler is rubbing against the 15kg Rocna Anchor.

The S1630-S2100 are the newer Sparcraft Mast profiles, and the Hanse 370 got the older F460.
When comparing the old and the new profiles, it shows that this block will fit even larger boats. (I have inserted the new profiles into the old sheet...)


Sparcraft 48011415080 is the same block (from the old catalog) and is just in ø80, so that would be a better fit.

/H8jer



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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: 415 Singapore
Date Posted: 19 February 2022 at 10:05
Hi, I am not sure that a low friction ring on a strop is a good idea, unless there is always tension on the spinnaker halyard the whole lot can drop down onto the jib and jam it as you furl it. I think the block shown in the last post looks a safer bet!
All the best
Paul


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Paul - Night Train - 415 #136


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 19 February 2022 at 10:35
Hi again

I guess February is main season in Sidney?

Perhaps a quick fix would be to try and see I my current setup can fix your issue. This fix can be done if you find a hero that agrees to be hoisted up the mast...




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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: Gypsy
Date Posted: 20 February 2022 at 03:36

Hello all my helpful advisors.

I moved the halyard to pass through the top fairlead only. Furling is smooth and easy! Success. The sail also sits parallel to the jib too.

I will ensure backstay tension is on and observe the effects on the mast when in use. I doubt there will be anything visible during my use single handed...maybe if I invite the ‘cowboys’ on board on a heavy day it will be a different story. Anyway, there is clearly an option to put a low-friction ring on a strop from the lower fairlead to achieve a similar result if I am concerned about the mast stresses.

I have dropped the tack down about 25cms too. Still experimenting to avoid tangling with jib furler or anchor.

Thanks to all who took time to comment and assist my problem solving.




Posted By: Dogscout
Date Posted: 20 February 2022 at 04:31
Not to rain on the parade.  I have been looking at buying a Asymmetrical on a furler for my 2008 430 with the Sparcraft mast.  I was told by someone who I consider to be VERY knowledgeable of this that the thimbles on the mast are placed for a Code 0 halyard to be run near the stays and that an Asym should be run nearer the top of the mast.  Reason:  The code 0 pulls/loads to the side and the Asym pulls forward.  I have 2 spare halyards and run one at the upper thimble and one at the lower, but right now they are not used.  Still shopping.

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Adventure awaits


Posted By: Gypsy
Date Posted: 20 February 2022 at 04:53
Tks Dogscout. I take your point about the loading.
My use of the C0 is more for downwind. I have an assym but don't keep in on the boat since I am mostly shorthanded. I considered buying a small furling assy but decided to give the C0 a try as it gave me a wider range with only 3 sails, 2 of them furling.
That said, I am in experimental mode now that I have learnt more on the subject. I can still easily add a block or ring to the take off point which I previously used as a fairlead if I feel I need to.
Rgds Ray


Posted By: PekkaL
Date Posted: 20 February 2022 at 10:51
I agree with the recommendation to attach the code 0 halyard through a block attached to  the friction ring: you'll notice the code 0 likes to be hoisted tight enough for the friction ring to start chafing the halyard.

Having a 2x halyard makes the hoisting far easier, thus my setup is attaching the dyneema halyard
- down from the mast friction ring 
- through a block at the top of the code 0
- back to mast through a block attached to the friction ring.




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Pekka Leppanen, "Vedette"


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 20 February 2022 at 17:20
Hej PekkaL

Could you please help my simple mindOuch understand how you setup a 2to1?

Perhaps a drawing or picture, cause I can't picture it...

Kind regards
H8JER


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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: PekkaL
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 12:57
Sorry, no access to photos just now, let me try to explain:
(1) tie the 10mm dyneema halyard to the attachment (friction ring, maybe 1m from the top of the mast)
(2) add a block #1 to the top of the code-0
(3) route the halyard through the block #2
(4) add a block #2 to the attachment (friction ring)
(5) route the halyard through the upper ring / lead in the mast  and to through the block at the top of the mast



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Pekka Leppanen, "Vedette"


Posted By: Kox
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 13:40
From this document page 88:  http://support.seldenmast.com/files/595-540-E.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://support.seldenmast.com/files/595-540-E.pdf





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Hanse 315, Ella, Hull# 640


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 15:04
Hi PekkaL and kox

Now I get it. My haleyard is some 15meters too short for that setup.
Do you also have a separat haleyard for the Gennaker that is not 2to1?

/H8jer



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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 16:51
my halyard is almost at the top.
The code -0 is a little lower.



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Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-......


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 17:18
Hi alettaenmarcel

Your Code0 looks to be very long!
Mine Code 0 has a SLU of 15.29meters
What is the measurement? 


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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: alettaenmarcel
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 17:21
i do not know exectly but i think it is somwere around 16 mtr.

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Kids Dingys 72-79 ,Several Windsurfboards 79-86 OK dingy competitions 86-92 , Trotter Pandora Race 92-98, Friendship 28 Sport 98-05, Hanse 370 06-......


Posted By: PekkaL
Date Posted: 21 February 2022 at 18:09
The gennager loads are minimal compared to code sails: there is no chafe (my gennager halyard has lasted 10 years where as my code halyard shows chafe in one windy day[edit: if through the friction ring]) and the issue is not to hoist the gennager too tight versus being able to hoist code tight enough.

I keep my gennager (non-dyneema) halyard attched through the friction ring without any blocks.


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Pekka Leppanen, "Vedette"


Posted By: Kox
Date Posted: 22 February 2022 at 15:35
Yes, H8jer, you'd have to renew the halyard.

I have not done the 2:1 yet. Alomost new to us boat. Hasn't even got the spinaker-halyard in.
I bought a used gennaker on a furler that I intend to use with the 2:1 halyard that I intend to mount at mast-down later this summer :-)


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Hanse 315, Ella, Hull# 640


Posted By: plattgatt
Date Posted: 27 February 2022 at 17:54
Klatschen[QUOTE=Zigeuner]

Hallo alle meine hilfreichen Berater.

Ich habe das Fall so verlegt, dass es nur durch die obere Fairlead geführt wird. Rollen ist glatt und einfach! Erfolg. Das Segel sitzt auch parallel zur Fock.

Ich werde sicherstellen, dass das Achterstag gespannt ist, und die Auswirkungen auf den Mast während des Gebrauchs beobachten. Ich bezweifle, dass während meiner alleinigen Verwendung irgendetwas sichtbar sein wird ... vielleicht ist es eine andere Geschichte, wenn ich die 'Cowboys' an einem schweren Tag an Bord einlade. Wie auch immer, es gibt eindeutig die Möglichkeit, einen reibungsarmen Ring an einem Riemen der unteren Seilrolle anzubringen, um ein ähnliches Ergebnis zu erzielen, wenn ich mir Sorgen um die Mastspannungen mache.

Ich habe den Stift auch etwa 25 cm nach unten fallen lassen. Experimentieren Sie immer noch, um ein Verheddern mit Fockrollreffanlage oder Anker zu vermeiden.

Vielen Dank an alle, die sich die Zeit genommen haben, Kommentare abzugeben und mir bei der Lösung meines Problems zu helfen.


[/ZITIEREN]

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370#641 "aqua d`or"


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 09 April 2022 at 07:53
HI

I am about to order a 2-1 code0 halyard.
Could anyone that already has a two-to-one halyard assist me in getting the length right?
PekkaL are you here? 😀
My current spinaker/genaker halyard is 41 meters, but 40 should be enough.
I imagine that adding 16 meters to that number and I will be on the safe side. Is 57 meters correct?

/H8jer


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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 16:06
Originally posted by H8jer H8jer wrote:

is 57 meters correct?

Hi Talking to myselves againLOL

I have now used my 57m and it is the correct length


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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: PekkaL
Date Posted: 23 July 2022 at 17:47
I finally managed to get a photo of my set-up...



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Pekka Leppanen, "Vedette"


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 23 July 2022 at 18:29
Hi PekkaL

This is also my current setup with 2-1 halyard, but my Code0 must be larger than yours. I need to pull the top swirwl so it touched both the block and my knot at the eye.



The top of the Code0 is not turning freely but touches the headsail. When turning the Code0 furler the Code0 sail dont turn, but it builds up tension and then it starts to spin some revolutions and then stop again.
I have decided to not use the Code0 this season and then mount a bracket some 20-50cm above the current location of the Block.
The bracket I intend to install is requiring that a series of holes are drilled into the mast and then joined to a 'channel' the can hold this 2-part bracket.
https://www.riggerne.com/products/60010365-forestay-fittings/4219-sparcraft-two-parts-baby-stay-attachment-for-oe8-wire/" rel="nofollow - https://www.riggerne.com/products/60010365-forestay-fittings/4219-sparcraft-two-parts-baby-stay-attachment-for-oe8-wire/


Do you have the same issues?
/H8jer


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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: PekkaL
Date Posted: 24 July 2022 at 08:28
As you maybe can see from the photo I took, the code 0 halyard returns to the mast through a block that's connected to the eyelet through a ≈10 cm dyneema loop. 

The accidental by-product is that it lifts the code 0 forward by 5 cm or so, thus it is clear of the head sail and rotates freely.

The downwards force is still almost vertical & sideways loads remain at the eyelet, so I do not imagine it producing any significant sideways loads to the top of the the mast.

Maybe you could use something similar to get a few centimeters separation between the code and head sails?






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Pekka Leppanen, "Vedette"


Posted By: H8jer
Date Posted: 25 July 2022 at 10:23
Hi PekkaL

Thx.

I will try to a add a dyneema loop and try this before ordering a new bracket for the mast. so there might go some weeks before I am any wiser.

btw.
My Gran-Segel 60m2 Code0 55.6% has SLU of 15.29m.
I measured the mast to have the spinaker-haleyard exiting the pad-eye at a height at 14.71m. Length from the old bow-spit to the mast foot is 4.45m. With the new bowsprit is 4,75m
With Pythagoras (approx. 90 degree mast rake) this gives a SLU of 15.37m / 15.45m with the new bowsprit. This only leaves room for 16 cm for my block in the 2-1 haleyard and the shackle. I have not controlled the SLU of the sail to see if it is really 15.29m. But I have issues getting it pulled thight.

I will have to find a tough very-small block with built-in shackle or some other combination to minimize the wasted length.
This is how it looks today after I moved away from a quick-snap shackle. But no I need pliers everytime I want to remove the halyard



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Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin


Posted By: sgrhma2
Date Posted: 03 September 2022 at 22:08
I have run my asymmetric and code zero for years from the top lead eye. I’ve also recently had a new asymmetric made after the old one exploded dramatically. The new one has a lot of additional area low down due to the additional luff length and as such is a more powerful sail. On the plus side there is little additional heeling due to the additional area being in the lower part of the sail. I’ve had the halyard rigged like this for 12 years or so with no issues and wouldn’t dream of moving to the lower eye again.

Simon 



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