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Dumb access question

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: 415/418
Forum Description: 415/418 Hints, Tips and News
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13362
Printed Date: 04 July 2022 at 12:51
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Dumb access question
Posted By: SimonGH
Subject: Dumb access question
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 17:27
Im trying to update the center MFD and am adding Radar.
I need to run the Ethernet to the center pod mount on the cockpit table.
In scoping this all out, I cannot figure out how to access the area behind the engine where the exhaust is, sail drive, etc.  I have a two cabin version, but there is no access panel in either aft cabin??
How do you get under the table??
Thanks!
Simon



Replies:
Posted By: Wayne's World
Date Posted: 30 April 2022 at 21:14
Chainsaw?

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Wayne W
Cruising, currently in the Caribbean and will head across the Pacific early 2023


Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 01 May 2022 at 14:50
Seriously!

I'm completely perplexed.  I would have expected an access panel in the "storage" area to that region.  How do you service the exhaust?

I just bought this boat last fall, so it's all new to me.  I will say that I love the build quality over my previous Beneteau 41.1, but I will offer that the Beneteau was a lot easier to upgrade and modify because you could access these areas.

Does anyone have any documentation or images / drawings?  I can't find anything in the manuals.


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 01 May 2022 at 17:56

I did this on a 418 and have just looked into it again for a second MFD at the chart table. Firstly check there isnt an existing ethernet connected. The factory had run one in during the build and left the other end by the main panel under the chart table. Who knew ;)

Its fairly straightforward to ease an Ethernet cable down the table leg, then there was a cut out at the aft end of the port aftcabin (in the bulkhead between the aft cabins). I was able to fish the dropped cable out from that access hole and then run it back either through the aftcabin or to the engine bay. Obviously the issue is the bulky B&G plugs, so you may need to splice cables together 


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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: Carlosailfan
Date Posted: 02 May 2022 at 08:55
Hi, wow not easy to explain, but i ran my UPT cable from the mast though the roof via the toilet to the back of the instrument panel ( nav table ) at the inside, where the switches for accessories are through a ( broken :( )tube to the aft cabin and then via the place were the original wire is till the cockpit table at the chart plotter.

Main obstacles :
Factory installed empty tube in coach-roof was squeezed in fabrication process and not usable. I removed all led spots and used the openings to pass the UPT by jumping in different steps, ended up in the bathroom and managed to arrive behind the instrument panel at the nav table.
Tube originally installed tube behind the instrument panel on navigation table was broken @ at 80 cm from start, yes here i got a lot of luck :):) and managed to come through !!

It was a nice job, it took me 1 day without using a saw or drill :):) Yes it is feasible but not easy.
I did it on our 385 who is similar to the 415.

Good luck and if you need more info, pls let me know.


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Best regards
/C


Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 04 May 2022 at 00:47
Ok, from the lack of "you dummy, there's an access panel in xyz location" posts, I'm not crazy.
I saw where a large bundle of cables comes out of a cutout in the aft port cabin like you describe.

I'm just amazed at the fact there is no way to get in there?

What happens if you need to service the exhaust?

I'm very tempted to cut an access panel in the "storage" area...



Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 04 May 2022 at 19:38
On the 445 there are access panels to the engine bay behind each cabin door so can get to both sides of the sail drive and exhaust mixer. Additionally under the port bunk is access to the hot water tank and a panel that forms part of the bunk that lifts to access the exhaust. 

I have not been on a 415 but it would be an amazing design decision to not make similar provision on a boat only slightly smaller in the same family.


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HANSE 445 #231 "ALBION"


Posted By: 415 Singapore
Date Posted: 05 May 2022 at 08:07
Hi as per Matt's assumption our 2 cabin 415 has the same access arrangements as his 445. There is also a removable panel in the rear bulkhead in the second cabin that allows access to the stern. Not a comfortable squeeze through but fine for access.
All the best
Paul


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Paul - Night Train - 415 #136


Posted By: TouchOfGrey
Date Posted: 05 May 2022 at 22:05
Hi Simon,

we did the same on our 418. It appeared the yard had already installed an ethernet cable from the MFD to the cable 'trunk' accessible behind the hatch in port aft cabin (same hatch you must remove to access the main winch motor, if electrified, or to access the service port at the back of the Triton unit).

In our 418 there was also an ethernet cable installed from this location to the chart table area. The only part I needed was a female-female connector to plug in both ethernet cables.

Good luck!


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Henk

Touch of Grey
H418 #028


Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 06 May 2022 at 01:12
Thanks everyone!  I will investigate.  It would be awesome if it was pre-installed!



Posted By: Ian Coverdale
Date Posted: 06 May 2022 at 15:38
BTW ... plenty of info on WWW about using standard Ethernet switches with B&G/Simrad Ethernet. Need to be confident at using RJ45 crimp tool though!

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Ian & Andrea
SV Gabrielle (H445)
Portishead, SW England.


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 06 May 2022 at 17:23
Not sure what your set up is and what Radar, but my Halo 20+ plugged straight into the Zeus 3 over Ethernet without the addition of an NEP / Router. 

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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 08 May 2022 at 00:38
I've done it before with a regular switch, but I was able to get an NEP-5 inexpensively on Ebay, so I'm going to use that.  I've got a plotter for the inside nav station, so I will need the switch to get radar on both, as well as share chart files.


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 08 May 2022 at 05:03
Interested to follow your progress. Ive just fitted a 2nd hand zeus 2 at the chart table and linked with a straight ethernet to the Zeus3 at the helm. The Halo radar is showing on both MFDs and B&Gs support (who have been excellent btw) are adamant I dont need a switch between the two devices. (I mean you have one anyway so you may as well use it!). 

Im having some glitches with chart sharing but they think there is some interference caused by the N2k nw (if I unplug n2k charts share just fine). Next step is to do a hard reset of both MFDs but I want to do this during the week when B&G are available on the phone..and after Ive backed it all up!


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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 10 May 2022 at 00:11
assuming your helm is a Zeus3 12"?  That works because the 12" has 2 ethernet ports.  So you put the radar in one and the other is free to connect to the other MFD?

I'm putting a Vulcan 12" at the helm, that only has one ethernet port, as does the 9" Zeus3 that is at the Nav station.  So you need some type of switch to tie in the radar.  I would work if you just wanted to connect the two MFDs directly together without the radar.

I've not tried to connect a Z2 to a Z3.  The Vulcan and Zeus are not supposed to be able to share charts, but they work fine together.



Posted By: spam
Date Posted: 10 May 2022 at 16:20
Hi Matt1, 

can you tell me a bit more about your experience with the second Zeus unit?   I installed a second Zeus (3) at the nav station as well and also have some issues with chart sharing.   Although both plotters boot up when I power up the navigation circuit (I.e. yellow wires are connected to +12V), often find that the plotter without the Navionics sd card only boots up with the base chart.  I have to first switch to another chart source (e.g. the insight chart) and then switch back again to the Navionics chart for the chart sharing to work correctly.   Not impossible, but a bit annoying.   Is this what you see or something different?

How have you hooked up the yellow wire?   Just connected to +12V or interconnected?  I.e. the two yellow wires are connected together

Harold
S/V Ventus
415/314


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 10 May 2022 at 19:01
Hi Harold - I havent connected the two yellow wires together, so they are independently powered and I have to switch them on one at at time. Other than power they are both connected to n2k and display sensor data fine. There is no NEP, just a straight ethernet form the helm MFD (12 so has x2 ethernet ports) to the Zeus 2 at the chart table (1x ethernet). The other ethernet on the helm Zeus 3 has the halo connected. The halo and sensor data show on both MFDs but waypoints and charts wont currently share unless I disconnect the N2k. B&G have been very patient with me and the latest thing to try is disconnecting from the n2k then powering both up and doing a hard reset on both, then reconnecting the n2k. A guy on the B&G Facebook page has the same set up as me and said he fixed it by downgrading the SW on his zeus3 to the last version for the Zeus2 (18.x?). So those are the two things left to try, which I will do at the weekend. Ill let you know how it goes 

Rgds Matt


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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: spam
Date Posted: 10 May 2022 at 23:34
Hi Matt:

What maps are you using on your plotter?  Insight (preloaded) or navionics (on SD card)?  Or something else?   If navionics, in which plotter do you have your  sd card with the maps?   If the sd card is in plotter 1, presume plotter 2 won't see the maps unless plotter 1 is booted up first, no?

Can you provide that link to the B&G facebook page?

Harold
S/V Ventus
H415/314
Boston


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 11 May 2022 at 06:18
https://www.facebook.com/groups/117021058359123/permalink/5384986364895873/" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/117021058359123/permalink/5384986364895873/

Not sure if that link will work?

Im using navionics SD card and have tried every combo of start up with / without chart in each MFD

Im trying to avoid having to downgrade the SW on the 12 Zeus 3 so will try B&Gs suggested hard reset first 


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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 13 May 2022 at 22:36
I believe your issues are because you're trying to get a Zeus2 and Zeus3 to talk together.
On my previous boat I had 3 Zeus3's linked together with a Vulcan 12 and they all shared the charts perfectly.  There was a center 12" and a 7" at each helm.  The vulcan 12 was at the nav desk.

So if you have all Zeus3's i don't think you will have any issues.  And while the Vulcan's aren't supposed to share charts, it worked for me just fine.  My Navionics card was in the Zeus3 12.



Posted By: Yeoey
Date Posted: 14 May 2022 at 12:22
evening, 

I believe your question has been covered before but you do not need to run a cable to you plotter - B & G provide a fitting that allows for connection of existing cable from the plotter behind your switchboard - my radar was a post construction fit and was originally connected by an installer in Pittwater, Sydney by piggy backing it to existing cable fitting however it was not successful and when I purchased the new unit is worked properly and has fir several years now.
If you pm me I can send you picture of my instal as I dont know how to attach pics to this chat room.


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Peter
Sea Rambler 415 # 137


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 16:48
Quick update: After some very good, and very patient (!) support from B&G their suggestion of doing (what turned out to be a partial) reset on each device appears to have cured all the issues. So I now have a functioning Zeus 2 at the chart table & zeus 3 at the helm sharing waypoints, charts, radar. Simply connected by n2k and ethernet (no NEP) and so far so good.     

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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 06 June 2022 at 01:04
It doesn't seem like they pre-installed any ethernet into the table.  I've pulled it all apart and there is not an extra cable in there.  But i've done enough routing that i'm comfortable i can get a cable from there into the nav desk area.
But my bigger question is how do i get the ethernet cable down from the cabin top??  I cannot find any conduits or paths that take me down to the sides of the hull.
Someone mentioned that there was a conduit near the head?
I'm at a loss.  I was surprised that the compression post was closed off.  usually that's the easy way to get the cable from the cabin top to the sole....
thoughts?



Posted By: Yeoey
Date Posted: 06 June 2022 at 01:52

Re my earlier post - my radar connection problems were solved when I installed  https://www.bandg.com/en-gb/bg/type/spares-and-accessories/cables-and-connectors/nep-2-network-expansion-port/" rel="nofollow - https://www.bandg.com/en-gb/bg/type/spares-and-accessories/cables-and-connectors/nep-2-network-expansion-port/  
Ie my radar had previously been piggy backed onto an existing Ethernet connector port which just was efficient or capable of long term working if my radar ie it worked for a small period of time  and then cease.
I did not have to run an additional line from my plotter - the existing line was connected into the expansion port and all subsequent cables lead from it. 


-------------
Peter
Sea Rambler 415 # 137


Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 06 June 2022 at 16:15
Thanks, i understand completely what you did.

My issue is that there is no physical ethernet cable to the plotter at the cockpit table, nor one to the mast step in the cabin overhead.

So the physical wires simply don't exist.

And since i've been hunting around in my cabin overhead with 2 different borescope cameras and wire fish rods, I cannot describe how frustrated I am with HANSE for the way they simply DO NOT provision for any type of expansion or modifications after the factory.

I cannot find a way "down" from the cabin top mast area.  There is no conduits, and no path past the side decks.

Literally $5 worth of flexible conduit installed during the build would have fixed this.  One simple tube from under the mast to the nav table area would have been prefect.  But nothing.
I have gone into the bathroom overhead, pulled every cabin light, and pulled apart the nav station.  I cannot find a way.

I am literally going to have to go forward, drill through the bulkhead glue to the forward cabin, then run it down the side of the vanity / sink thing to the starboard couch, then under the floor to the port side.  That is utterly ridiculous.  I will run 50+ft of cable instead of 10.  The only other option is to come out of the cabin top in the bathroom shower area and then back into the wall to the nav station.  But that means two holes and a exposed cable, and that just really bothers me.

If anyone has any information that i'm missing for a 2014 415, please please post it here.  Other "similar boats" or even the 418 perhaps were improved in this issue, so experiences will vary. But I'm totally perplexed and will offer that this is literally the worst boat i've ever worked on in this regard.  The dealers must hate putting any upgrades on these things.  They literally made zero accommodations as far as i can tell.





Posted By: Bruno
Date Posted: 12 June 2022 at 22:29
Would it be possible that the cables run under the insulation panels over the engine? You could possibly feel it without removing the insulation or lift just the edge.


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Bruno

Hanse 400, 2010 Hull 660, Canadian flag sailing Lake Champlain, VT USA


Posted By: Matt1
Date Posted: 13 June 2022 at 06:35
Ive been able to run several cables from the underside of the mast to the nav table, but it was tricky and I was helped by an existing wire which I pulled back to the mast with a mousing line attached. Once Id got the mousing line in I was good for a few more wires before the gap became congested. 

Ive also had to run in a cable for the solar panel which went from the nav table to the underside of the deck by the companionway - that was very difficult and I ended up having to take the blind pelmet down and drill a hole through the grp liner so I could access the hard turn round that area. (See below)




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Hanse 418 #64 EmBer. Hamble, UK



Posted By: SimonGH
Date Posted: 13 June 2022 at 20:58
I ultimately gave up and went the route i described

Forward through the bulkhead to the front cabin, down the side of the vanity area, into the starboard setee, under the floor to the port setee, then into the nav area.

From there, there is a conduit that takes you all the way to the small area behind the autopilot & shore power breaker in the port cockpit locker.  So then you can painfully snake back into the aft area behind the aft wall of the port cabin, and down under the bed of the port cabin and into the cockpit table leg.  I still have the bruises and scrapes.

The good news is I've discovered the major conduits forward/aft in the boat.  There are two up high on the port side from the nav desk to the aft area (as described above), and one on the starboard side that goes from the area by the bow water tank to a nasty spot just aft of the stove, where the conduit breaks and there is another conduit that takes you from there to an outlet just short of the aft bulkhead under the cabin floor by the fuel tank.  That one really was a bear, because there was nothing in the conduits, so navigating the break between the two conduits involved getting access to the area under the cabinets (there is an opening below the big sliding drawer where the dishwasher would go) and using magnets and borescope cameras to get a line across the break between the conduits.
I needed lots of advil and iodine after that adventure.





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