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Buying a 411: Things to watch out for!

Printed From: myHanse.com
Category: Hints and Tips
Forum Name: 411
Forum Description: 411 Hints and Tips
URL: http://www.myhanse.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7912
Printed Date: 06 December 2022 at 17:18
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Buying a 411: Things to watch out for!
Posted By: TheOnly
Subject: Buying a 411: Things to watch out for!
Date Posted: 16 October 2013 at 21:42
Dear all,

we are planning to become part of the Hanse-gang. We would like to buy a 411, but due to budget restrictions it will be a used one from the "early days", that is before 2005.
As I would really appreciate some help, i wanted to suggest to start a thread listing the typical problems with the 411 and what to watch out for particularly when checking out a candidate. I think nobody else but a long-time owner can really give hints on this topic-and I hoped some might be willing to drop a comment.
I read through a good part of the old threads, but didn't find anything of this kind. I am sorry if I missed somehting.

Thank you very much in advance,
TheOnly



Replies:
Posted By: Jøvani
Date Posted: 20 October 2013 at 17:02

Hi,

The Hanse 411 models were in production for several years. I am not sure, but I think it was introduced in 2000/2001 and the last was produced in 2005. It is a well designed boat. It was somewhat upgraded in 2004/2005. Probably more than 200 was produced. My hull number is 189.  One important change was the stern which on the latest models got an extra space for the swim leader, making it easier to enter the boat from aft.

 

Another important issue is the mast. The first models had some problem with their mast. The type of mast was later changed to a model with a tapered design, i.e. the dimensions are reduced at the top of the mast. I have not heard of any problems with the new mast type.

 

It has to my knowledge been delivered with different sized engines. I have the Yanmar 55 HK version, an excellent engine, which fits well to the 9 to 10 tons boat.

 

The hull was delivered as white, blue and light gray. I believe the blue is hard to keep nice over time.

 

I will strongly recommend an electric winch as the main sail is heavy and the mast is high!

 

The tank capacity could be better. The spec say 240 liter of water and 120 of diesel, however in my boat the diesel is only 100 and most likely water is 150 liter.  Which are in the lower range for a boat of this size.

 

Other things to look for buying a secondhand should be and hull damages, the keel and the hull structure, the quality of the sails and any extra sails, Stays, sheets and halyards.  I am sure you can find a sort of check list somewhere on internet.

 

Wish you luck!



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Jøvani Hanse 411 #189

Tønsberg

Norway


Posted By: Sealife
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 09:09
Hi, I would agree with Jovani on all points, especially the tank capacities. Our boat was built 2005 but was bought by us in 2010, and we have been very pleased overall. To date we have not encountered any major structural problems however the internal systems are prone to failure as on any boat. Some of these are listed here:-

Unsecured drain in the exhaust muffler causing the bilges to fill after every outing. (This took some time to identify)

Blocked breather pipe making it very difficult to fill the diesel tank completely.

Switching valve for the blackwater tank was stiff and eventually the lever snapped off! Seacocks should be looked at closely, there has been much discussion in the boating mags this year, but ours are still OK.

Domestic water taps could be better quality.

We have also noticed that the stanchions are prone to rusting.

Our hull is an off-white colour and although the blue looks attractive, long term the white is easier to maintain.

I would also agree that raising the main requires much effort. We are considering the possibility of an electric winch. If anyone out there has replaced the main with a lighter material I would be interested to hear of their experiences.

We have also replaced the wheel with a much smaller one, as moving around it at sea was not without some risk.

If you take the 411 forum as a whole, strip out the teething issues surrounding new builds then the picture is one any manufacturer would be reasonably content with...

Good luck

Hanse 411 - Hull#211









Posted By: Bandy
Date Posted: 27 October 2013 at 21:11
hi, in fact the first 411 were from 2002, it was the first J&V design for Hanse, together with the 371. It is a really strong build boat, and as a result rather heavy. nearly 10.000 kg. not only is the watertank rather small but also not in a really good place (under the bed in the front cabin). it is a nice sea going boat, that does well in longer sea races. we sailed her for 10 years this year and are really happy with her. also after 10 years she looks really good (almost as new), so the quality of the grp is good (we also have the off white hull). all and all a good choise i think.

 
     


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Bandy, Hanse 411 2003


Posted By: WilliamF
Date Posted: 10 April 2014 at 11:13
Dear All,
I am presently looking at a 461 / 2005/GRP and found 2 inches  water in the bilge under battery shelf compartment starboard side ... no water noted around  keel bolts and were shiny without damage rust . I read in another note that water could be from muffler starboard side...   any other comments the water tanks looked good. 
The teak deck and hulll look in great shape awaiting opportunity to sail her.



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William


Posted By: sailkoop
Date Posted: 10 April 2014 at 18:18
Hi,
What kind of Water it is, salt or sweet water? If it is sweet water its coming from a not leak free connection between the Mast and the Deck!


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best regards

Bjoern





Posted By: WilliamF
Date Posted: 10 April 2014 at 20:41
The mast and aft of mast is dry,as well as over the keel bolts... the owner stated that the water may be salty. Most of the water was contained in the battery section under the wood platform ...at least 2 inches deep
I am looking to buy this boat...also looking at a 461e which also had a little water starboard aft compartment near battery

thank you

William

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William


Posted By: sailkoop
Date Posted: 10 April 2014 at 21:28
Hi,
The bottom of these boats are shaped in a Way, that the Water is running from all over the Boat to the two Points you discribed. I.e. The Water from the Mast is running in the Area directly after it is rainning. The next Morning you'll see nothing on the Mast!! In general, whenthe Water is salty, take care about it! If you doesn't find the rootcause you can pick up a lot trouble by defecting your electric by Corrosion etc....

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best regards

Bjoern





Posted By: WilliamF
Date Posted: 11 April 2014 at 14:53
Thank you have there been any significant construction differences reported between the 461 GRP and 461e other than the epoxy weight strength osmosis differences...I am seriously considering the 461 GRP 2005 ( once the bilge water has been sorted out.
Do you also have ballpark figures for costs of sails for the 461 ?
Thanks for your advice

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William


Posted By: cwetto
Date Posted: 11 April 2014 at 15:18
Originally posted by WilliamF WilliamF wrote:

Do you also have ballpark figures for costs of sails for the 461 ?
Thanks for your advice


For H540e ballpark for sails range from €7500 for dacron CC, around €15k differnet spectra, kevlar, TapeDrive to around €22k-25k for high tech Carbon Technora sails. Main + jib EX VAT.

Regarding to size and very similar structure, H470 have to be around 70-80% of that.
 


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Cwetto
Hanse 540e 2007, sailing Med


Posted By: WilliamF
Date Posted: 11 April 2014 at 15:33
ok this helps..would normally get costs from sailmakers but it's late friday...and need info for the wekend

Thanks

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William


Posted By: GoneFission
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 12:24
Hi All

i am looking at purchasing a Hanse 411 or 400 and intend on heading offshore, i like the 411 because i understand they are a very strong boat but i have other boaties suggesting i look at the 400 because its newer in design and construction...any thought?

Also, can you tell the build number of any given Hanse by its serial number?, is it simply the last 3 digits of the serial?

Thanks
Jules


Posted By: S&J
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 12:55
Hi Jules,

I cannot comment on the H400 other than they seem very popular - I see many around and they look like great boats.  I love my H385.

There are two numbers associated with Hanse builds.  The number that most people quote is something like an order number (for a given design).  Mine is 351.  However not all orders result in a build so the build or hull number is usually lower than this and that is what is included in the HIN # for the boat.  My full HIN is DE-HAN 0295 L 415.  So the actual hull number is 295.

Hope this helps.


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H458 #159 Primal Mediterranean cruising


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 13:36
Jules - you ask a tough question. No right answer!   I came down to looking at both a 411 with lots of long passage cruising inventory and a 400e that was 3 years younger but would need 'development' for longer passages. They were literally side-by-side on the hard at Hamble Point as it happens :-) For what it's worth I'm very happy with the choice: boat speed, sea keeping and simple comfort for cruising. The 411 would have traded just a little comfort and speed perhaps. Though it did have 'good to haves' already fitted like an inner forestay/ running back stays. Still yet to be done on my 400 though the rig comes off this year and that will be the time to do it. Ultimately my other half had the casting vote as she fancied the newer and more modern boat. If I'd been in a hurry to cross an ocean for the least money, I might have gone for the 411. As I knew the opportunities for long passages were a couple of years away the 400 was perfect.

Mark


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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: Mark_J1
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 16:04
Jules - I forgot to mention. Do a google search "myhanse 411 mast breakage" or similar and pick up on the thread re some issues with a particular brand of mast. Didn't affect all boats and I'd imagine most are now sorted. Though worth a check.
Mark

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Hanse 400e "Grey Goose" Hull #31


Posted By: GoneFission
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 16:54
Originally posted by S&J S&J wrote:

Hi Jules,

I cannot comment on the H400 other than they seem very popular - I see many around and they look like great boats.  I love my H385.

There are two numbers associated with Hanse builds.  The number that most people quote is something like an order number (for a given design).  Mine is 351.  However not all orders result in a build so the build or hull number is usually lower than this and that is what is included in the HIN # for the boat.  My full HIN is DE-HAN 0295 L 415.  So the actual hull number is 295.

Hope this helps.


Hi, thanks for your reply, very helpful

The hull number of the one I'm looking at is DE-YZG41133E404, I'm guessing the 404 at the end is the month and year of manufacture, the 411 is the model, that leaves 33E in the middle which doesn't tell me much. 33 cant be the hull/build number if the build year is 2004.

The problematic rear keel bolt on the early models isn't present on this boat but it does have the non-tapered Sparcraft mast that seemed to be an issue for several earlier boats. I am keen on this boat because the general condition is excellent and the price is very good. That leaves me plenty of money to replace standing rigging etc to make the boat offshore safe. I just want to make sure im getting a hull/keel/rig of sufficient vintage that I'm avoiding the issues with the earlier ones.

Jules


Posted By: GoneFission
Date Posted: 07 May 2017 at 17:46
Originally posted by Mark_J1 Mark_J1 wrote:

Jules - you ask a tough question. No right answer!   I came down to looking at both a 411 with lots of long passage cruising inventory and a 400e that was 3 years younger but would need 'development' for longer passages. They were literally side-by-side on the hard at Hamble Point as it happens :-) For what it's worth I'm very happy with the choice: boat speed, sea keeping and simple comfort for cruising. The 411 would have traded just a little comfort and speed perhaps. Though it did have 'good to haves' already fitted like an inner forestay/ running back stays. Still yet to be done on my 400 though the rig comes off this year and that will be the time to do it. Ultimately my other half had the casting vote as she fancied the newer and more modern boat. If I'd been in a hurry to cross an ocean for the least money, I might have gone for the 411. As I knew the opportunities for long passages were a couple of years away the 400 was perfect.

Mark


Thanks, Im assuming you researched the model before buying, did you become aware of any inherent issues with a certain year/model of the 400 that made it one to be careful of?. For example i have been told to be wary of the earlier 411's because of the possibility of keel or rig issues, Not to say any early Hanse 411 is a bad boat but every boat model seems to have an optimal year if your looking to purchase, i'm interested to know what that might be for the 400. A friend purchased a Oceanis 393 and was told to aim for boats in the middle of the production timeframe, apparently they skimped a bit towards the end of the production run in the name of build price.

Jules


Posted By: Solent Guy
Date Posted: 10 August 2017 at 12:22
Interesting discussion, I've joined the forum recently having bought a late 411 (2005, hull #227).

As a marine surveyor, I am familiar with the build construction, having surveyed both types. Not to say either is better than the other, I noted the following differences, perhaps largely due to the post 2006 models being much more geared up for efficient production methods.

  • The 400 uses extensive internal mouldings, tray matrix / liner, whereas the 411 has traditionally laminated in transverse floors around the keel (as a surveyor these are easier to inspect!) and can be seen to be well bonded and secure.
  • The 411 has a composite (cast iron top, lead lower) keel which reduces the cog, but is considerably more expensive to build.
  • The internal finishing including joinery is very different - the 400 more modern, the 411 more traditional, personally I like the deep lacquered finish.
  • The 411 is notably heavier than the 400, this for cruising to me is a benefit, we changed from a (cough) French production type as it was too light to give a smooth ride, and difficult to manoeuvre in breeze due to the lightness and high freeboard.
Overall, my impression is that the 411 was very well and quite heavily built, perhaps too well built to be financially competitive with other brands. We had to add a spacer for the recently installed electric winch for the main halyard as the deck was too thick for the winch spindle! A few leaks and snagging to fix but overall I've been very impressed. Just my observations, now my new boat is finally ready for me to go sailing - which I'm just about to do! 

Guy



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"GiGi", Hanse 411, Hamble UK


Posted By: Bernd vh
Date Posted: 10 August 2017 at 15:56
Hello,
I`am an old 411 Owner, delivered to us in July 2003. We had 2 mastbrakes in 2004 and 2007 (Sparcraft)
Obviously there was an unspoken mistake in the rig constuctrion. Then we changed the rig compltely to a selden rig, since that we have a beautyful, strong and -for a cruiser- very fast boat.
I think the specification of th mast was improved for later models as sometimes I see a 411 with Sparcrft rig and no problems.
Bernd



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Hanse 411 nr 69


Posted By: samba
Date Posted: 11 August 2017 at 08:11
Hello,

We own a Hanse 411 as well and in 2008 we did an Atlantic crossing with the boat.

The boat behaved perfect. 

We did install a removable cutter/baby stay with runners to give the mast additional support and stop pumping. This is working fine and I still use it when we are sailing at sea.

Please find some earlier discussions on the myhanse site with regards to modifications and advise:

http://www.myhanse.com/recommandations-for-atlantic-crossing_topic1746.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.myhanse.com/recommandations-for-atlantic-crossing_topic1746.html




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Samba - Hanse 411 - Bruinisse



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