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Quality problems with the interior

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Rock View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 September 2014
Location: Netherlands
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2019 at 10:51
Hi antsy,

I posted one reaction re johcow.
An entity without previous posts on this forum, being very negative about Hanse, with a history that (at first glance) gave raise to questions.
Trolls and fake news are unfortunately part of today’s live.
Johcows reply was fine with me.

On the subject, I think we are all somewhat sensitive about the image of the yachts we sail.
Bad press is not nice, but if it’s fact based we draw can our own conclusions.
Boats are all about compromises, cost, quality, comfort in the marina, at anchor, speed, behavior in rough conditions etc.
In my opinion Hanse held a good balance amongst the other brands that are mass produced, decent quality, looks, sailing behavior, price.

At the same time it appears Hanse sometimes makes choices that are difficult to understand, the lack of responsiveness you (and others) describe is appalling.
While Hanse appears to rely heavily on their distributors (often making up for Hanse’s shortcomings) it seems to me we are still Hanse’s customers, deserving more ‘attention’ even if this will take some effort from Greifswald.
Sure, Wolfsburg probably won’t reply if you write to them about your Volkswagen, but Giebelstadt (for example) typically replies to Bavaria consumers/customers.
It is possible, Hanse make a conscious choice not to.

I am happy with my 2007 400e, but would have done many  things different if I could have built the boat myself.

Peace,
Peter.
Hanse 400e "M-square2" #0241
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Muriel View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 February 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2019 at 14:22
Hi Antsy,
It appears that I have got somewhat under your skin.....not really my intent.  If I offended you and Johcow, then my apologies.  I, like Rock, am suspicious of users who have apparently just joined, in your case just an hour or two under this name, have very little info on their profiles, and yet appear to be ready to dump on the manufacturer.

Clearly, I was out of line.

So, in the interests of peace in the world of Hanse, I will refrain from jumping to conclusions.

I am confident that Windcraft will deliver me a great boat.  Sure, there will be teething problems, but I'm sure we will work them through.

I may be disappointed in some things but I trust that my overall pleasure will outweigh the problems.

Take care and enjoy sailing....
If you don't know where you are going, how will you know when you get there?
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Antsy View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 April 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2019 at 01:43
Hi Rock,
Thanks for the reply.  Johcow has been on the forum for 10 years as have I under Perchanse.  His boats were basically used as demo boats until the last one, and he and I have always been mindful of protecting the Hanse name.  I don't think that the forum should be spared too greatly as Hanse has some answering to do and hopefully they monitor it and do something about it.  I don't think people will be put off by the truth.

We have C.I, (Continous improvement) systems in our ISO 9001 status where any customer complaint gets followed up and the design altered or the problem fixed or the customer is educated where it is their fault or misunderstanding.  

I visited Greisswald in 2005 approx.  I spoke to Gregor then and over a beer after work, I asked him "what happens when the accountants ruling affects the quality of  the boats?"  He replied, "When that happens, I will not work for them any more".  I think that time has come but he is now a shareholder!  However, Johcow pointed out to me that the forums of other "European" production boats are complaining of similar issues. 

The design features of Hanse have improved and there are other certain things that have gone backwards.  We, in New Zealand, are serviced from Australia with a local office, which has its own drawbacks.  I believe they try to fix all the issues but are lacking good people which the Australian parent company has, due to its size.

The Hanse and Dehler hulls are strong and appear well made but they go cheap on the finishing.  The other imports seem to go strong on the finishing and not so strong on the hull strength.  I race my boats and was T-boned by another boat.  It was split stem to stern,  I had to redo the name. BTW I was on Stbd.  I have had a few collisions and the other boats have always come off 2nd best.  So I am happy with the hulls.  As you say boating is a compromise but safety is not.

I am also on a submarine forum as I have 2.  One old 2nd hand, I reconditioned, the other, work in progress.  The forums we should use primarily to help each other with issues and with fixes. I don't post much but if I see something glaringly wrong I put my 2 pennies worth in as some amateurs are not very good at engineering. 

I  have learnt a lot on fixes from some really talented & professional people on some of these forums.  About 5 years ago I finally met Alan & Alain the French couple, who I met on the 430 forum.  We had them home for dinner and it was really great to meet them as they are such a lovely couple.  Alan has almost rebuilt his Hanse with the mods he has made.  I wish I could have spent a week with him as he was very knowledgeable and they have spent years travelling.

How do we get Hanse to improve their quality is the big question.  For the price we pay, we could buy a Masaerati, Ferrari etc and there would be no imperfections.

I know Dutch are hard boys but we are not at war.  Good sailing.
PS I actually think I would have preferred a 400E late model to the 418 and tried to buy a used one. 


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Antsy View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 April 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2019 at 02:14
Hi Muriel,  Thanks for the apologies.  I guess I also jumped to a conclusion where I thought, from your attack, that you worked for Windcraft/Hanse.  Evidently not.  At our age one tends to be suspicious.

If I were to list all the issues I have had it would be boring.  You are lucky to have Dave over there to fix issues.  Pete built up Windcraft by providing good service but he has also had to fork out for many of Hanse's misdemeanors.  Sometimes he can claim from the factory but it is a shame he is no longer there. 

The forum has some really good people with some great ideas on mods.  Sometimes it is hard to find out if what they say has value.  I have learned a little patience on the forum goes a long way.  A number of people hide their issues in trying to protect their resale. 

From the Sales / service agents, I will not tolerate incompetence or B.S. which we are sometimes subjected to.  Life is difficult enough and at our time of life it is buying something for our later years and enjoyment.  They should learn not to P--- off old people.

Again, thanks for your conciliatory note.  Enjoy your sailing and I suggest you could approach Johcow ( if I can cool him down) and myself off line for a few mods we have done.  Your checklist is a little shy.
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Antsy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2019 at 02:19
Correction and apologies to Alain and Anne.  Our French couple.  How bad is my alzheimers!!
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Antsy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2019 at 22:59
Thanks Magnum,
I think I have an issue with the chart system on my 418 changing about 7 degrees.  I will check out the fluxgate mounting.  It has been baffling me.  However, it could be something stupid we have in the setup. 

We had a fuse blow on the lights first cruise and impossible to find until I phoned the dealer.  He sent me a page from his manual and a wiring diagram so we were able to find it.  My manual did not have it as mine was Rev.6 and his, we noted, was Rev.9.   Check the latest Revision for your manual.  We put another fuse from another circuit in and it blew as well.  Dealers Electrical guy has fixed it but not told us the problem.

The fuses in the control panel behind the switches are on the printed circuit boards and you need a wiring diagram to find out what is what.  The writing on the pcb's is really small and almost impossible for old eyes.  Luckily my son & I are used to wiring diagrams but I pity non tech people.  This is something that should be added to the owners manual for easy fault finding.  We had a spares kit which I thought was a great idea but although there were spare fuses, they were automotive and different from the ones on the pcb's.
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StavrosNZ View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 October 2014
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2019 at 04:33
Dear All, i too can vouch for Johcow, he is well known amoungst the Hanse owners in New Zealand as he has owned as he rightly states 4 different Hanse boats over many years that I am aware of.

Whilst not hugely active on the forum he has as Antsy points out been the best salesman for Windcraft the Hanse agent in New Zealand for many years. John (Johcow) has been around boats most of his life, is an engineer and from the few exchanges i have had with him has a very realistic and balanced view of the Pro's and Con's of modern production line boats made with no boatbuilders involved vs those made in small numbers or as one offs by boatbuilders in the years gone by.

If he has something bad to say over his current 418 it must be bad and he should be listened too. Hanse and Windcraft would be mad not to satisfy him if they don't want their brand damaged on New Zealand shores. 

Likewise Antsy (Perchanse) has been a longtime customer with both Hanse and Dehler products and i witnessed firsthand his new 418 being commissioned and his attention to detail with regards to his new keel being true. As he points out the lack of quality, qualified people doing work both at the factory and during commissioning is a concern. There is no debating that cost and accountants play a huge part in the decision making of Hanse. Items have got lighter and reduced in spec with each generation and none of this makes for a better boat.

This debate is one that breaks down to "new is not better", "better is better" and i believe boats pre GFC are of better quality those during and after. I have spent 5 years and lots of money redoing much of the original Hanse work on my own 2010 400, its now in a shape and condition i am really happy with and i would not upgrade to a new Hanse because i dont believe the new models are better, infact i think they are worse. 

By the way this applies to all brands in my view not just Hanse, even current generation X-Yachts are not what they were pre-GFC.


Edited by StavrosNZ - 15 April 2019 at 04:33
Stephen
2010 H400, Auckland, New Zealand
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Johcow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johcow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2019 at 08:16
Originally posted by Sysarah Sysarah wrote:

Hello All other owners, 

I am struggling with a lot of quality issues with the interior of my Hanse 588.

1 All locks on drawers and doors are opening while at sea because the hook that hooks into the plate is too shallow and the hooked part comes loose on either tack. 
2 The yard uses a too soft plywood, not marine grade, and too small screws which results in the screws loosing its grip and falling off. So far locks, joints/gas arms, salon table, companionway and aircon/heat controllers have fallen down/off. 
3 the shower furniture, including the door and door frames are rotting. This is due to bad material choices and definitely not marine grade plywood. 
4 rust in the companionway steps by the welds. 

These are major issues as a lot of the interior furniture needs replacing before these issues are fixed. Any thoughts anyone?

It would be great to hear more from you other owners here.
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Johcow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johcow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2019 at 22:44
Hi Stavros (Steve)
Many thanks for your support. My original posting was in response to the issues that Sysarah was having with his new boat & I briefly outlined the issues I had encounter to give a "heads up" to any potential purchasers but unfortunately that was turned around pretty quickly. While I have not been on this site for quite some time it is obvious to me that there are contributors here who have an interest in the brand but are clearly not owners. After owning 3 previous Hanse's I thought I had more insight than most as what to expect from the latest model. Sadly that was not the case. While the price has gone up the quality has gone down. The boat has hardly been used due to the lack of confidence I have with the vessel. There has hardly been I time when when something has not either broken or failed & my family will no longer go out on the boat due to its unreliability. While I can accept that some items can be "fixed" I struggle to accept the things that can't. I certainly concur with your thoughts on new v old. Glad to hear you are finally sorted with your boat & thank you once again & hopefully we can meet up sometime.

John

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SVZara View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 November 2018
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVZara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 00:03
What is GFC?
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