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Quality problems with the interior

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StavrosNZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StavrosNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 00:08
Global Financial Crisis (GFC) started 2007, all manufacturers struggled to survive and cut costs. 
Stephen
2010 H400 #691, Auckland, New Zealand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2019 at 11:40
We have a 385 2014.

No quality problems on interior (or elsewhere). We have the default interior cabinets, some show a little usage wear, and I wish there was a way to repair it cosmetically, but as it is plastic/vinyl film I haven't found a good way to do that. Let me know if anyone has? Sealant in bathroom/and on outside floor near bathroom was cracking and in need of a fresh-up. 

Some things could have been better designed for serviceability. I.E blackwater tank impossible to access (though upon cleaning the ventilation duct there is absolutely no foul smell last two years!), but one day there might be a problem, and fixing the tank is quite an operation. 

Changing fuel-pre-filter very awkward, the D1-30 engine is fitted very close and getting to the fuel/filters could have been easier (perhaps a Volvo Penta issue as much as Hanse), access to fresh water couplings a little difficult. The fluxgate compass is practically impossible to get to (our works fine, so no need yet), but...access to cockpit floor/underside of cockpit table and wires difficult (they have closed off the space between the aft cabins, access to anchor locker/lift possible but difficult from underside (this may have been fixed in later models). 

If you have ever seen an RM yacht inside you will realize that it is possible to design all of this entirely differently with perfect serviceability of all third-party components (but apparently at nearly three-times the cost)

And, the aft crawl space is not a watertight compartment i.e if rudder failure (takes a look at i.e JPK 38FC or 45 and it is clearly possible to resolve this (admittedly these are high-end performance boats) I believe all production boats, and many performance boats, have variations of the same design problem here.

Electrics are, on the other hand, very cleverly designed, laid up, labelled etc. Looks a bit like Halberg Rassey. The pre-layup of the simnet is great and allows for customization later which there will inevitably be as nav equipment lifecycles are much shorter than the boat...

We have no electrical issues, except a Wurth panel problem. The display is not working and I can't figure out how to fix it. The switch board itself works fine, and it seems a little silly to flesh out 1000 euros for a new board. 

The water/diesle gauges are just ridiculous. For 10 euros more Hanse could have had better stuff there. Perhaps they cough 10000 units at discount and need to use them before changing to something meaningful...

The sprayhood/tents/lazybag - we dropped the factory offering (delivered by a griefswald based shop for which I don't remember the name) -  which is not very well made. Opted for Kapell&Annat. Swedish producer that has templates for all Hanse boats (most Scandinavian boats are sold with K&A instead of the original from Hanse. First rate stuff. Needs here may be different in the Med as compared to northern waters.

Some problems with the B&G nav equipment, especially our wind sensor on which we are on the third now, but these are not installation issues, more about the questionable quality of some B&G stuff (at ridiculous prices).

So, our issues are mostly about a few annoying design choices. 

The quality of the build seems very good thus far. Hull, bulkheads, riggings, keel and everything that is really serious appear as good as new and there are no issues. 

If anything, its a bit heavy, I wish they did infusion lay-up or other techniques to reduce the weight of the hull, may even gain a bit more stiffness from that, by reducing hull weight, if they're able to maintain the keel weights. 

But I surely feel very confident about the robustness of the construction, at big seas there is no twitching or bending, seems to stay completely stiff, just a little heavy in this day and age with advances in composite technology.

And finally, another positive note, the availability of the spare-parts aftermarket catalogue on-line is really quite exceptional. And the availability of technical documentation. Exceptional. You don't see this from more high-end performance boats either. 

And this forum itself. Real value.

And Hanse publishes the technical numbers, ballast, wind diagrams, heel angles, measurements, drawings,. electrics, reinforcements and all, for models, for decades, which most producers don't, actually I don't know of any. That's really confidence inspiring.

We are in position to consider switch to a high-end performance boat, but I am actually not sure that we will. Looked a lot at that, and tested many high end boats, they are surely nice, but not a hundred percent convinced of the value for money. 

And we might decide to live with some less performance, some annoying design issues, but at ease from having "saved" 2-3 times the cost of the boat.

Hope the newer Hanse designs do not go more in the cruising direction, as they may possibly have done with the 8´series, but evolved a bit further in the performance direction. The idea that Dehlers are to capture that market is not a good one. 

Marginal improvements on Hanses would make them even greater for performance. This is about things like cockpit ergonomics, which one can modify a little bit after-market, but not much, and most importantly, about keel/hull stiffness.

For us, the performance characteristics are why they are preferable over i.e Jen, Nav, Ben. I.e even the new Ben "first" line have ballast ratio of about 25%???

The Hanses have better ballast/displacement ratios. This is the real structural issue that impacts boat performance the most. 

The JV hull designs, which seems to be the same for both ´5 and ´8, is far from outdated and is modern enough, but there have been advances in naval engineering that could make them even more exciting. The beam could possibly have been carried a bit further aft at the waterline as you see in the newer and more advanced boutique performance boats (and to an extent on Ben/Jen.) The Dehlers are even more classical in this respect and are probably outdated. The geometry of Hanse hull designs are very similar to X-Yachts, except that those are built in epoxy and have ballast ratios of 44%...

And the rig has a good size, necessary to drive the boat at this weight, and appropriate for the ballast ratio of course, and it should not be any smaller. Possibly even a bit larger, but that would have required a stiffer boat. We can compensate (for heavy displacement) in low wind by adding front sails (code z, genny), but in heavy whether, I wish there was a bit more stability. 

Hanse is better than most, if not all, of production boats in the market segment, just wish it was more without paying the full price of a x-yacht. The Dehlers are only marginally better in this respect, and have more narrow hulls, less hull stability. Not convinced.

Constructing a stiffer hull (as in higher ballast ratio) is probably quite expensive, but if anyone can do this a lower cost than boutique French Atlantic producers, and at industrial scale, it should be Hanse. 

The more sporty characteristics are at the heart of the Hanse identity. 
Don't loose that, or Hanse will appear just like any other production boat.

Kind regards
I



Edited by Ist - 03 June 2019 at 11:43
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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2019 at 12:04
Its interesting the number of problems you see with the WURTH panels.    I had one go (and not just the display) and had to replace it.    I like the quality of my Hanse, but the electrical design is an embarrassment to German engineering.    I do technology for a living and respect well thought out design and this just isn't it.    Having a 10 amp fuse in front of a 50AMP autopilot fuse, or burying the fuse most likely to blow into the most inaccessible portion of the board is just not good design.   

Enough venting.   While my display is still working,  I've removed it from monitoring duty.   I took all the tank sensors and battery sensors and now have them monitored via an SIMARINE PICO system.    It works far better and looks a lot better than the 1970's CASIO watch technology in the WURTH panel.   It works with any voltage or resistance based sensor and is fairly easy to calibrate.   All my tanks and batteries as well as my solar are monitored by this.

FWIW

Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2019 at 12:16
Thanks. Good with a view from an engineer!

Interesting that you should mention the PICO. Also looked into that. Project not materialized as (1) saving the money for a 575 one day..., and (2) couldn't really figure out how to fit the shunt to the battery bank. Space is quite tight there and didn't feel like remodeling to much. Might be different on a bigger boat.

If I understand you correctly, you retained the Wurth panel for its buttons and switches, but moved the sensor information to PICO?

I


Edited by Ist - 03 June 2019 at 12:16
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Black Diamond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2019 at 12:48
Yes...   my PICO monitors the house bank,  the alternator output, the generator output,  the starting battery,  the bow and stern thruster batteries,  the solar panels (divided into two banks of panels), the inverter/charger, the blackwater tanks,  the freshwater tank, and the diesel tanks.     I have current use for refrigeration and freezer being monitored as well as temperature for those and the house bank.. See diagram.. its not current, but its close..     You also have a cell phone app that you can use to monitor things as well as the PICO display itself.  It uses a built in WiFi capability on the PICO unit and its easier to set things up than the display itself.

For some items I left both active,  like voltage monitoring of the batteries.   But for resistance based sensors (like the diesel tanks) I pulled the wire from the Wurth panel and plugged it into the SQC25T or the ST107 on the SIMARINE.   See back of nav panel configuration.      

If you want, I can send you pictures of how the SC501 or SC301 shunts are hooked up.  Seemed pretty straight forward.

I still don't like the WURTH panel for what it does, but the alternative is to rip it all out and put in a proper panel with a set of Blue Sea breakers.  I'm not prepared to do that yet.

SIMARINE is a young company.  Their products are good, but their support is weak and you really have to chase them to get things to happen.   I keep a spare PICO display just in case, as this (like the WURTH panel) is a single point of failure and I always want to be able to monitor things.

FWIW









Edited by Black Diamond - 03 June 2019 at 13:34
Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2019 at 15:24
Fantastic thanks! Looks like a great install. 
Yes, if you have pictures of the shunt installation that would be helpful!

I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Diamond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2019 at 16:03
I'll have to get some.   It will take a few days...

Rick
S/V Black Diamond
Hanse 575 Build #192, Hull# 161
Newport, RI
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