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Question: Mast Base Blocks

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D0bbies View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 January 2019 at 20:13
I was doing some maintenance today and found that the block spigots that fit into the collar surrounding the mast (Bottom Arrow) are either very loose in there socket, some are quite stiff and some would not move/rotate at all. I guess these should be all the same so I've WD40'd them to see what happens. (Not sure sure if there is technical name for this arrangement?)

I also noticed that where each spigot is located in the collar there is a cut out on the outside of the collar at the base (Top Arrow) which appeared to be filled with salt. But on closer look I found it to be some sort of white rubber. The collar seems to be fixed with a series of cross head screws but I'm not sure if whether this is worth removing or left alone?

Any comments would be appreciated.


2005 312, Tiller, Engine 2GM20, SD20 Saildrive. Facnor SD 130 Furler.
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AndyS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2019 at 22:04
Not sure what the white compound is, but under there somewhere should be the nut that holds the mast base blocks in place. Check out this post (http://www.myhanse.com/lewmar-blocks_topic10074_post88629.html?KW=mast+base#88629) I replaced just about everything (as you can read in the above link) and have been very happy. The original equipment I believe is not quite heavy duty enough, but that is just my opinion. 
Andy
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2019 at 08:00
On my boat the "cuts" that you refer to were actually splits in the aluminium. These occurred in the first year of use & the dealer supplied  new mast base. However, I had to remove the mast at the end of the season to fit it. the second one split as well.
I could see that it was due to the pins being loose in the holes were tilting & applying pressure on the upper sides of the holes. this was splitting the top part of the collars but no further down. I decided to leave it for a while.
In later years I made a new mast base which sits under the aluminium one in "reserve" so I can get extra blocks on (spinnaker gear cunningham etc) & have a spare if a pin pulled through.
So i suggest that you re appraise the "compound" as it may have been applied to reduce tipping or it may be corrosion between stainless steel & the aluminium. If it was applied to reduce tipping then that would explain the non rotation. That would not be an issue so long as the block is aligned with the deck organiser as it would not need to rotate any more.
My pins did not have nuts on the bottom, they had wider flat sections machined on them to prevent them pulling through. From the picture I would suspect that yours is the same, not the nut version.
If you do not have the nut version now, then you will not be able to have them without first removing the mast & the base first to remove the old pins. Even then I doubt that it would work.
The base is held in place with machine screws into an aluminium plate set into the GRP. Mine came out fairly easily because the boat was new & when i first put them back i greased them.
No idea about the philips screws, !!!

This is a picture of what happened when the splits came so large that the aluminium sheared away

For the record this is what it looks like on the underside

Not a lot of room for nuts & 2 grooves are quite long


Edited by samuel - 08 January 2019 at 08:43
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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D0bbies View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D0bbies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2019 at 08:36
Many thanks to you guys, both very helpful replies.

I'm not so keen on having the mast removed but I'll take a closer look in the coming days and post back on my findings.

Samuel: Thankfully my collar is still 100% in tact with nothing broken, but they appear to be "cast aluminium" so yours must have been a bad one! Did you receive any compensation from Hanse or did they offer an explanation?

AndyS: Nuts or flanges on the bottom of the block posts I don't yet know. Should they be nuts and one can supposedly replace these by exit and entry via the slots in the base, how does one stop the nut from turning to unscrew them if the posts are supposed to rotate anyway? (Hope I explained that OK?)

Cheers
Bob


Edited by D0bbies - 09 January 2019 at 08:49
2005 312, Tiller, Engine 2GM20, SD20 Saildrive. Facnor SD 130 Furler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2019 at 09:30
Originally posted by D0bbies D0bbies wrote:

Samuel: Thankfully my collar is still 100% in tact with nothing broken, but they appear to be "cast aluminium" so yours must have been a bad one! Did you receive any compensation from Hanse or did they offer an explanation?
Bob

I did not pursue compensation. I took the mast down to alter the fore stay length anyway.
the second mast base has started to do the same but less so
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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D0bbies View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D0bbies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2019 at 19:59
Originally posted by samuel samuel wrote:

No idea about the philips screws, !!!


Samuel: FYI only

Mistakenly I said the screws were cross head but they're actually countersunk flat blade screws. Probably a little more difficult to remove if I have to.



Cheers
Bob




Edited by D0bbies - 09 January 2019 at 20:00
2005 312, Tiller, Engine 2GM20, SD20 Saildrive. Facnor SD 130 Furler.
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samuel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2019 at 20:34
They hold the mast base to the deck & are fitted into a plate in the GRP. You can see the 4 holes in my first picture. They are the ones that I refitted with grease when I fitted the new base.
Looking at the picture you can see that the left hand block  where the pin goes through has started to crack. You can see the 2 splits in the photo
One crack can be seen in between the 2 legs of the block & the other can be seen just between the split ring & the block leg.
If you look at the right hand block it may be a mark on the aluminium but you may have a crack starting on that one as well-, just below the split ring
I would not be surprised if the second from left block has started to split
Take the blocks off so that you can see better
On my boat the 2 that take the greatest load are jib & main halyard & are to starboard of the mast. i suggest that these are the ones most likely to crack
However, I cannot really tell from the photo if they have cracked for sure and it may just be marks. I suggest that you examine with the sharp point of a knife.



Edited by samuel - 09 January 2019 at 20:57
Daydream Believer- Hanse 311- No GBR9917T- Bradwell Essex
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Borjebus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borjebus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2019 at 21:47
The previous owner of my boat did some good offshore racing and faced a lot of problems with different blocks that didn’t withstand the forces. This included the mast base blocks. Those were all replaced with Harken blocks, except for the main halyard where no big block with 6 mm pin could be found. He took a Lewmar block that could fit with some spacers. This “solution” is described in old threads of this Forum.


I wanted to get rid of that weak Lewmar block and also upgrade some other mast base blocks to bigger ones. To do that I needed 8 mm pins to fit. In order to get 8 mm holes I needed bigger bolts, 14 mm instead of 12 mm.

What I did:
1) I removed the mast base plate. On my boat there are nuts on the other side of the 6 machine screws, so I had to remove the inner ceiling. Be careful when you lever the base plate. The Sikaflex makes it sit very tight and you need quite some force to get it lose.
2) I drilled all the bolt holes up to 14 mm, plus some margin.
3) I manufactured new 14 mm bolts with 8 mm hole.

4) When I re-attached the base plate I secured that no Sikaflex touched the lower part of the bolts – I actually put some grease there.
5) With 8 mm holes for all bolts I could replace the blocks I needed to increase in size.
Nice result:


The damages on my base plate was not near the ones we can see in the pictures above (Samuel), and my boat is a 370 that has gone offshore racing. Nothing is stronger than the weakest link of the chain, and in my case I believe it’s now the base plate material that is the weakest part.
Sparcraft offered another solution, see picture below, where the bolts are replaced with stainless steel rails. For this solution you can use standard blocks with schackles. The problem on my boat is that the blocks comes too high and the sheets don’t come under the garage (bad angle).

BÄSK, Hanse 370e #82, 2006
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Bernstein View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bernstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2019 at 04:49
I have had the same problem. My solution you can see in the picture.



Best regards

Bernstein from the baltic sea



Edited by Bernstein - 29 January 2019 at 05:18
Bernstein, Hanse 320, 2008, Ostsee
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For Pete's Sake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote For Pete's Sake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2019 at 21:30
Hello

I was reading your post.

I have a 2007 Hanse 315...and wish to replace the mast base blocks.

You mentioned the previous owner replace the blocks  to Harken...would you know which blocks they were?   6106 or 6107 perhaps?   These blocks are listed under Harken's Big Block, cruising ESP category. This block can fit a 6mm hole in the mast foot base pin.   Would you know if this block can handle the Main Halyard?    I looked at US Spars/Z-Spars #261 and the working and breaking load are higher on the Harken 6107....so to me its a direct replacement.    BUT...it never hurts to double check...from a different source.

You mention below that you wish to replace the lewmar block...could the Harken 6107 work for you? 
if not could you explain?


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