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Rudder bearings

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Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rudder bearings
    Posted: 05 May 2021 at 18:31
Hi 
I know this has been chewed over before, but I was hoping somebody could point me to a supplier of rudder bearings for my 301. I tried Hanse, but they said the boat is too old, and they do not have any spears for these boats any more. 
If anybody has some advice, it would be very welcome.

Thanks Andrew
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 19:50


And Ý60mm shaft?


Edited by H8jer - 05 May 2021 at 19:55
Hanse 370#487 30HP 3-cabin
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Taylor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2021 at 11:52
Hi Andrew
I replaced the rudder bushes on our 301 last winter. It is not a one day job.

They are not roller bearings they are just plain bushes. 

I had some made and used the information given on dimensions in a post on here.

It is important that they are made from Delrin or an equivalent plastic that won't swell when immersed in water. If the wrong plastic is used it will cause your steering to seize solid.

Any local machine shop should be capable of making them.

I modified the design of the bottom bush as the original had just worn the rudder shaft down. I made the bush longer so it was bearing on unworn shaft.
I have a technical drawing of both bushes and will try and either post or PM these for you.

If you are doing the work yourself you will need to take your time.
It is unlikely you or any reputable yard could do this with the boat in slings.
The hardest part for me was actually removing the rudder and removing the lower nylon bush.

To drop the rudder you need to remove the tiller stock head bolt and the rudder clamp ring cap head. These will more than likely need to be drilled out if they have not been regularly removed. Not easy and took a lot of time. Once these are removed the rudder should be free to drop but.........

You need at least 1.5 m clearance under the rudder to allow it to be dropped. 

In my case the rudder wouldn't drop more than 50mm as the bottom bush was unworn and it jammed solid as soon as it was in contact with the bit of rudder shaft that was out of contact with the bush.

A combination of fairy liquid inside the rudder tube, weight in a bucket hung on the rudder and a long wooden lever g clamped to the top of the rudder allowed me to work it loose and eventually it dropped out.

Removing the bottom bush required the hull to be supported locally to the rudder tube.  It could be knocked out with a thick round steel pad that was a slide fit into the rudder tube sitting on top of it. I eventually found the weight of a scaffold tube was sufficient to pummel it out.

 I think cutting it a few times along its length from the underside with a reciprocating saw or hacksaw blade might have been quicker.

Reassembly was easy and I made sure the bottom bush was well fastened with sikaflex and the fit was good.

I found that the angle of the spacer to the deck under the top bush  mounting was incorrect. This caused the new top bush to be to be forced over and tighten on the rudder shaft. I managed to re angle the plastic spacer with an angle grinder so that the bearing was always parallel with the rudder shaft.

Refit with sikaflex or you will get rainwater in your aft locker.

Steve.

Hanse 301 Bluenote 11
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Bitbaltic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2021 at 23:11
welcome to the ever-present 301 rudder problem

I had my (entire) rudder and bearings rebuilt by my local engineers 10 years ago on purchase. Iíve certainly got nothing to add to Steveís advice on the bearings (I didnít do the work myself) but will add the usual advice to have a good look at the rudder stock when you get it out. In my case (and others) destruction of the original bearings was expedited by epoxy patch repairs to the original aluminium stock which was fabricated for Hanse by a now long-lost company in Poland who used inferior grade aluminium which suffered badly from pit corrosion.

If you are having the rudder out Iíd give thought to replacing the whole thing with an off-the-shelf unit from Jefa, because if you still have the original stock you will have problems sooner or later.

My stock and bearings are still perfectly smooth now 10 years later after replacing the lot, so if you keep the boat long term you should consider biting the bullet on a single job to replace everything.
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H8jer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H8jer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 07:20
The old polish rudders are of bad quality.

I replaced the rudder and installed new 130mm tube for a self-adjusting lower bearing on our old 311. All brand new JEFA equipment.
Much better


Edited by H8jer - 08 May 2021 at 07:21
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perry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote perry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 09:05
Andrew, I have had the bottom bearing out of H301 twice, the first to correct a tight bearing and 5 years later a second time to replace with over  lenth bearing to remedy the wear on shaft problem, for a pre-sale survey. My buyers surveryor monitored and fully approved my work/design of bearing.

Holby also has useful comments on his 301 bearing replacement and his material choice. I used Delrin because I have used it successfully on previous yacht rudder bearings, Holby has another good material option. I have failed to link my previous posts to you, but if you search my posts [Perry] you should find them and my sketch of over lenth bearing. Also check Holby for more info.
Feel free to contact me direct for any help. [perrysimonner@btinternet.com]
Perry
Current Yacht Hanse 315 2007
Last Yacht Hanse 301 Round GB in 2017
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Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 15:10
I now have the rudder out. The shaft is 60mm diameter, and is very badly pitted.
There is also a crack in the rudder on the front edge, I will have to split the rudder and replace the rudder stock.

Andrew
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Bitbaltic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitbaltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 08:41
that's exactly what my marine engineers did ten years ago (because the shaft was pitted, not because of any damage to the blade). Having it done professionally cost two grand. Cheaper if you do it yourself but keep an eye on costs. Last time I looked it would have been much cheaper (around a grand I think) to get a new Jefa rudder off the shelf.





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andrush View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2021 at 11:02
Fellows, discovered on my 301 that rudder pole is moving approx 1mm on the upper bearing from side to side and after carefully reading all threads here, decided to go with full replacement with Jefa after current season is over. Only question left in my mind is safety, would it be fine to sail 1000-1500nm until the winter? I mean what can happen?
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Taylor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2021 at 13:15
Originally posted by andrush andrush wrote:

Fellows, discovered on my 301 that rudder pole is moving approx 1mm on the upper bearing from side to side and after carefully reading all threads here, decided to go with full replacement with Jefa after current season is over. Only question left in my mind is safety, would it be fine to sail 1000-1500nm until the winter? I mean what can happen?

You shouldn't have any problem with continuing to sail with a sloppy top bearing. It may make controlling the boat with a tiller pilot less responsive. 

You are contemplating replacement with Jeffa equipment.
To my knowledge they can only offer a rudder that will fit the existing rudder tube and sleeve or bush type bearings.

If you wish to use jeffa roller bearings you will need to go down the root of complete replacement and reglassing of the rudder tube assembly and hull fairing.
I took the view that if the standard bushes had lasted nearly 20 years why go to the expense and the extra work and cost of bearings.

I am very happy after doing over 700 NM this season that the simple modified extended bottom bush and a new top bush on my boat have totally eliminated any play in the rudder. 
This also gave superb results with the much criticised raymarine tillerpilot.

Our boat was set up with sails well balanced in a force 5 gusting 6 in a quartering sea on our longest leg from Padstow to the Isles of Scilly.

 We averaged just shy of 8 knots on this long  passage surprising many larger club boats on our summer cruise with the speed of a sub 9m cruiser.

Hanse 301 Bluenote 11
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