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Snags to be expected?

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Dane View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 March 2013
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2013 at 11:57
It is sad and bad PR that things has to be done this way. Hanse's are lovely boats so it should be a positive to buy one.

Gothenburg sounds tempting, I'll let you know if we end up in those waters one day Thumbs Up
Hanse 385 "Tenna"
Denmark
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High Time View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2013 at 20:44
Hi Dane

That is a long and very disappointing list. Clearly your dealer has failed miserably to provide the boat you ordered in an acceptable state.

Were you under pressure to accept the boat and take it away? I know it's hindsight now but your best course of action would have been to refuse the boat and leave it with the dealer until all the problems were fixed. Although the dealer has all your money at that time, he is still keen for you to accept the boat because he can then remove it from his inventory and is no longer responsible for its insurance etc. i.e he has some incentive to fix the problems and hand it over to you in an acceptable condition. Fighting via lawyers etc. after acceptance is much more difficult.

I have to say that the UK Agent (Inspiration Marine - IMG) were excellent in their preparation of High Time and fixed all (bar one) of the snags that we identified pre-acceptance. The one remaining issue is a gelcoat problem and they gave us a signed assurance that they will fix the problem at a mutually convenient time in the future - i.e. when the boat is due for haul out and polish (probably next month).

It is sad that all dealers are not as conscientious as IMG! I wish you well in getting everything fixed to your satisfaction.

Good luck.


Roger

High Time (415 #038)
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MisterM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2013 at 12:06
Hi Dane,
 
That is indeed very sad to hear, and I can fully understand that the joy of owning a new boat has gone away by these events.
 
In which country are you located, as in: where is your dealer and who is your dealer? Sounds to me that they are the one that failed on most elements, and that it is also in the interest of the Hanse yard to know this and to change the dealership asap, whilst of course also taking care of your issues.
 
It looks like that many of your issues can be solved (although that costs time and energy of course), but you have some remaining that are really annoying. If I go over them 1 by 1:
  • The winches are wrong. I ordered electric 40' main and 45' secondary. I got 45' main, 40' secondary and no electrical. M: they should be able to change this, shouldn't they? You paid for it, so they need to change asap
  • The compas is upside down. M: is this the Selva compass or the plotter? The compass can be changed easily? On the plotter, we had the boat sailing reversed, but that is easy to correct.
  • The handheld part of the VHF is missing. M: is this the wireless second unit you mean? This is a part that can be delivered separately, and coupled to the VHF easily. We had some troubles in coupling it, but in the end succeeded.
  • The anchor chain was connected to the boat with a plastic strip. M: upon delivery, many items are not the way you want them (reefing lines wrongly installed, etc, etc), but this is a minor item, I guess
  • The TV i ordered was not there, nether any of the installations for it. M: same issue as winches, I presume: you paid for it, but didn't get it
  • Sensors for the water tank doesn't work. M: annoying, but can be changed or repaired (sometimes its just a connection that is faulty)
  • Convertible bed/sofa on port side of the cabin can't be converted to a bed as nothing fits together. M: is that the berth port aft, or in the cabin itself, that you then have with the chart table that can be dropped? I thought you only needed one additional pillow to put on the chart table when lowered?
  • Loads of marks and dents in the floorboards after tools and screw that has been dropped and stomped upon. M: that is the most annoying thing! You buy a new boat and get a semi-used one with scratches of others. I had some of those on our 320, and was not happy, but did not make any work out of it. In your case, sounds like they should repair, replace or pay you compensation.
  • Sealing around teak in the cockpit is incomplete and missing in one part. M: is that the Sikaflex, or kit? Of course can be applied by yourself or an expert.
  • Rust on the reilingpoles. M: that is bad. Should be replaced in my view.
  • Wrong backplate for the a/c panel. M: not sure what this is, but they should replace that as well
  • Wrong wood on part of the floor. M: so you have 2 colours? That is bad. But the yard should be able to deliver a replacement of the right type/colour?
  • wrong manuals for several pieces of equipment. M: not handy indeed. But luckily all manuals can be found online these days
  • Cockpit tent too tiny on parts, so it requires violence to get it on, but we managed. But I don't think it will last. M: issue to deal with the local supplier/sailmaker of the tent? Or was it factory delivered? Most handy is a local sailmaker that delivers all, as they will normally provide excellent service and aftercare.
  • And then loads of smaller items and scratches M: again, that is most annoying indeed.
My advice would be to repair and change as many items as you can yourself, or by external service providers, as this will take away the cause of issues, and prevent further damage (i.e. in case of the missing sealing of teak in the cockpit), and send the invoices to the dealer. Of course you may need to notify them on that, but you can of course also notify the yard.
As you know I had some issues myself, of which the diesel tank was the most annoying one; others were all solved quickly, but indeed the boat is great to be upon and to sail with, so hopefully that joy will wash away your negative experiences over time (once they've all been solved of course).
 
Good luck!
 
Machiel.
H385 #208 "Van Bree" - light grey hull
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Mark&Catherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark&Catherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2013 at 15:14
Dane,
 
Really sorry to hear all this, I am picking my 385 up in 3 weeks from Griesfweld and I am full of that excitement that you describe.  I hope my experience is not as bad as yours, please excuse me for this.  I dont know what I can do other than to offer my sympathy and support, like Machiel and the others.
 
I hope you get everything sorted out and that you can enjoy the boat.  I think I am lucky having Inspiration (IMG) on my side from the comments made by others, so far so good.
 
Lets hope we can meet up in the Hanse regatta one year when all the boats are bedded in and giving us the enjoyment that we planned.
 
Good luck
 
Mark
385 ubulukutu sail number GBR 3350L in Turkey and Greece with Mark and Catherine
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Fendant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fendant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2013 at 13:19
Well my boat is also due for delivery in 3 weeks, I will be at the yard for a inspection visit next week.
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Dane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2013 at 09:55
Thanks guys.

Of-course everything can be fixed and rectified over time, but this many and these kinds of faults and mistakes are just frustrating because it should have been picked up long time ago by the builders and / or dealer. Thats what they get paid for.

I can not reveal who the dealer is at the moment as I will give him a fair chance to put some effort into this and get it sorted.

To you guys picking up your boats, congratulations :)  I too hope you won't have the same problems, and I hope you will have a very nice time from the outset without any hazzle. That is how it should be.


Hanse 385 "Tenna"
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skipper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2013 at 15:51
One recommended path suggested by Westcoast in different discussions:
  • travet to the yard with your car filled with equipment you have procured yourself
  • go through the boat together with the dealer
  •  sail it for a day and go back to the yard
  • agree on things to be fixed
  • travel home and leave the boat to be fixed
  • come back via train/bus/airplane and review the issue list
  • when everything is fixed call your bank to transfer the final payment
  • sail away happily

 

Cheers,
Skipper
Former owner of Hanse 342 2005 (Sparcraft mast, white hull, wheel steering, deep draft keel, short rudder)
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Swanji View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swanji Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2013 at 19:49
Hi

A couple of observations

- My sense is that most manufacturers are inconsistent when it comes to quality which makes choosing the right dealer absolutely essential to mitigate against this risk
- it seems to me that Hanse has been prone to more quality issues over the years than most although I would like to hear from the other owners who have owned other brands and what their sense is.
- once you are set on a particular boat, it is almost impossible to change tack as it were. We tend to rationalize our decision in a way which justifies our choice. Boats have an incredible emotional pull at least in my experience
- finally, I would be surprised if the Élan you are looking at is priced the same as a Hanse. My sense is that they are more expensive and slightly higher up the quality ladder. That is not to say that they will sail better.

A nice dilemma to have by the way. Enjoy it
Onwards and upwards

Nidri, Levkada, Ionian, Greece

Hanse 350 #7, SY Evolution, standard keel, 3YM20 sail drive, 3 cabins, cherry wood interior, teak decks, feathering prop
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Milan69 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Milan69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2013 at 20:09
Thank you Swanji,
somehow I managed to delete my thread :(
It has been over a year now since I have decided that I will buy a boat and it took me a long time to understand what I want, and I agree with you it is very emotional decision and experience, at least for me. I have sailed 385 few times and I am very impressed with the boat and maybe it is my disappointment since I have visualized that these things should and must not happen. I can only imagine if a new car that I was buying was presented like that, how me how my reaction would be.
As far as Elan is concerned funnily enough they are at the similar price range maybe because Hanse has set new standards and various manufacturers are trying to adapt. The offer I got from Dafour 380 is not very far either.
However, having said all this, Hanse 385 is in the league of its own and I think come  May next year my boat will be cruising beautiful Croatian islands.
And yes, it is a nice choice to have :)
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MisterM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 21:36
Hi Milan,

You are right such things should not happen, and comparison to cars (which are usually less expensive), makes sense.
My experiences with boats, cars and houses, however, are somewhat mixed.
First house I bought was new; it had many issues and leakages... Second house was 5 years old; no issues at all. All my new cars had issues. My current car is second hand English (!), and has never had any issues at all (knock on wood)!
All boats I've had, from third+ hand to the last 2 new Hanses had issues with leakages and other items. As long as they can be solved, I am not unhappy.
Of course I cursed when I had my diesel tank leakage, and still need to receive the final repair for that.
But I think you're right: the Hanse 385 is in a league of its own, and within the same price range I would not look for any other make or brand, even if I could make the decision now again.
Hope that helps a bit.

Machiel.
H385 #208 "Van Bree" - light grey hull
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