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Why I'm not ordering a 430

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johnf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why I'm not ordering a 430
    Posted: 10 May 2007 at 09:13
After much deliberation, I've decided not to buy a new Hanse.

I think that the 430 is a great design, and I hope you all enjoy your boats when they arrive.

However I will take my chequebook elsewhere. There are a number of issues  that I see as needing attention with Hanse which are all documented on this site, and none are huge problems, nor are they unique to Hanse. They are the sort of issues you find with all production boats, where almost by definition the builder is trying to minimize his cost.

The overiding factor in my decision is trust. I have a lot of faith in the Judel/Vrolijk designs, but as a builder I feel that M. Schmidt is more concerned with empire building than building a loyal following based to a quality focused organisation. I'm not saying that Hanse doesnt build a quality product, but the devils in the detail. Too much is left to the dealer to sort out, and while it appears that most of the dealers are trying hard to keep their customers happy, if they are not getting the answers and support from the factory, then the owner suffers. There's too many topics on this site where a small problem is not resolved in a timely manner by Hanse.

Ultimately, I buy yachts to enjoy them, not be frustrated while waiting for the builder to be bothered to address an issue, which I feel would be the case if I bought a Hanse.

Before you all start about the competition, I have owned or been actively involved with the commisioning and maintenance of boats from the following manufacturers: Amel, Beneteau, Jeanneau (prior to B takeover), Catalina, C&C, Moody, Farr, Swan, X,some custom builds and a particularly dreadful Bavaria. Every one had problems to start with (yes even the Swan, which leaked like a sieve) but with the exception of C&C the builders were incredibly responsive, with queries responded to within hours, not days or weeks.

Perhaps this is all growing pains and Hanse will learn and become the builder that they have the potential to be, but at the moment they are the kid in school whose report card reads "Could do better"Disapprove

Fair winds

John
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colincooper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colincooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 13:14
It is a shame, since you aren't going to buy a yacht, that you won't find out the truth of Hanse after-sales service.  In my own experience I could not fault it.  I find my dealer, Hanse UK, responsive, friendly and helpful in all cases where I've reported problems to them.  I've never, myself, been disappointed in their response.  Indeed often I've been pleased when they go the extra mile too.
 
This website is for owners to talk about the not-so-obvious problems.  Sometimes it isn't always clear whether Hanse has or has not done the right thing with certain aspects of the boat or its equipment.  This website is to debate that - and to learn from other owners what does and does not work for solutions.  OK on occasion there are problems that kick-around here for some time.  But usually a consensus on the best answer arises eventually.   
 
I think it is a strength of Hanse that they have this website.  They don't hide these items away.  Few other builders have such open sites.
 
When you buy a Hanse you opt for a modern design.  The downside is don't get the benefit of several years of production where all design issues are resolved - leaving just build-quality issues.  Hanse is lucky in having very few build-quality issues.  There have been some design issues.  In the main these are minor.  For me the advantage of getting a modern designed boat far outweighs the downside.  I'm sure most Hanse owners would agree.
 
Good luck in finding a boat that better suits you.  There are trade-offs to be made in buying any of them.  Sorry if Hanse doesn't meet your priorities.
 
 


Edited by colincooper - 10 May 2007 at 21:32
Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370)
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Rubato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 17:01
John,
What will you buy or have you decided yet? I still can't see a boat out there that has the combination of performance, layout, and general appeal that works for me but we all are looking for different things.
 
Steve
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Clivian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clivian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 19:55
I have to echo Colins reply to you.
 
We have owned 2 hanse's and can only reiterate that Hanse UK - Peter, Dominic and crew have been nothing but helpful and responsive.
 
We could not ask for better.
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and life is about choice - so whatever choice you make - Enjoy.
 
Sue Wink
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Alex Faber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alex Faber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 21:23
To be honest, I would not know what other boat to buy than the Hanse 430e!
This yacht exactly suits my requirements:
1- Good sailing performance (Judel/Vrolijk design).
2- Rigid construction.
3- Sufficient ballast.
4- A rig big enough not to be underpowered with a self-tacking jib.
5- Being able to see the telltales in the headsail while helming comfortably (two wheels).
5- No teak deck.
6- Epoxy hull.
7- Value for money.

Edited by Alex Faber - 12 May 2007 at 08:45
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Brightside View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brightside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 21:42
Hi John.
Thanks for your posting.
If management listen 'Exit Interviews' can help those that remain.

Regards
Mike.

PS. If all boats are a compromise, I hope you find the set of compromises that work for you.
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jorgenah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jorgenah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 21:49
I am also thinking about getting a 430 from Hanse, and I must say that at first some of the nagging in this forum about quality details made me a bit anxious, but after a while, I realized that a lot of the problems are just that, details. In the end the discussions here has made me more comfortable with Hanse, as I now know a bit more about what to expect. Also it gives buyers a great chance to confront the "known" problems upfront, before buying, and perhaps get some of them sorted out before delivery. As i mentioned the "nagging", I must add that this forum is full of useful information, and very knowledgeable people, and as I work towards my final deaccession I will probably drop by and ask some questions.

I'm planing a bit in the future, as would like my boat delivered next spring, so I'm going to use the summer to look a bit around, and try out different boats, the dealer here in Norway has a 430 on the water (If not yet, quite soon) so I might change my mind in the end, but I really like the "new" Hanse style, and even if they are not perfect in many ways (does the perfect boat exist), the combination of style, sailing abilities and price seems hard to beat in my opinion.

- Jørgen


Edited by jorgenah - 10 May 2007 at 21:51
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colincooper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colincooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 22:14
Hurrah.  Thanks jorgenah.  Glad you saw through the "nagging".  This site is invaluable to owners - and we thank Hanse for hosting it.  I can see that the risk is that it put new owners off - but please don't let it.  If you ask anyone on this site I don't think you will get any that regret buying their Hanse boats. 
 
I looked at many other boats before going for Hanse.  Two thing brought me to Hanse - the great modern design and the build quality.  I learnt after buying that the after-sales is great too.
 
I can understand people prefering other designs.  People have different priority lists when looking features.    But mis-understanding this site and thinking that Hanse have quality and support problems is a big mistake.  They don't.  And I'm one of the ones that posts some of the "nags".
 
Hanse take important problems seriously.  They have this site - that is one sign that they do.  For another read through the reports of serious problems like unexpected rudder damage - and they normally have someone inspecting the boat immediately just in case there are lessons to be learnt.  Read back through the threads and see.
 
On other items there is more disagreement.  Sometime Hanse have made one decision in a design compromise that some don't like.  Take the windlass position for example.  Some don't like the fact they have to keep knocking forward the taken in chain.  Personally I like the fact that that leaves me a nice big locker space to keep my gennikar or fenders.  We talk about that here.
 
I know from talking to Hanse that some of their staff look at this forum every day.  They delibratly don't often post answers or remove items since they want it to be a true owner's forum.  If I want the Hanse answer I know I can ring them - or if minor I wait and ask them at the next boat show.  This site is for talking to other owners and getting experienced answers.  I value it highly and I love my Hanse 370.


Edited by colincooper - 10 May 2007 at 22:16
Colin (owner of Hilde - a 370)
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Johan Hackman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johan Hackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 23:34
In a way it makes sense to me - someone is checking this forum out and make their decision based on what they read. I am sorry to hear that it puts somebody off from buying a Hanse though.

Johan




Edited by Johan Hackman - 11 May 2007 at 07:19
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johnf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 02:58
Thanks to all for not flaming me!

I can accept all the above comments, and if the"local" dealer was not at least a weeks sail away, then perhaps I'd make a different decision. Since the dealers (all of them not just Hanse) are effectively out of reach, my priorities are probably a bit different to most.

I'm currently leaning toward an X-43. Very different starting price, but I've found that just looking at the initial purchase price can be quite misleading. Its the total cost of ownership over the 3 or so years that I'll likely keep the boat that really matters to me. Is the X going to outperform the Hanse in this regard? Probably not if the hull gets full of osmosis! But the boat appears to be well equipped with appropriately sized, quality fittings and has a level of fit & finish not found in Hanses, as you would expect at the price.

 Interestingly, particularly given the feeling of robustness is that the overall weight is 17%  lower with 10% more weight in the keel than the 430.

Time will tell if I've made the right decision abandoning the 430. I still like the design, perhaps in 2010 Hanse will have a compromise that suits me better.

Cheers

John


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